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Lab Test Guide

Learn what your doctor is looking for when he orders a vial of blood or draws fluid from an inflamed knee.

By Mary Anne Dunkin

More than for most other diseases, the diagnosis and treatment of arthritis require a hands-on approach. By examining your tender joints and muscles and listening to your description of your symptoms and their severity, a doctor can usually get a pretty good idea of what’s going on inside your body.

But there are times when a doctor needs information that only a laboratory examination of bodily fluids and tissues can reveal. When he needs to confirm a diagnosis, monitor disease progress or medication effectiveness, or determine if the drugs you’re taking are causing potentially dangerous – but not evident – side effects, lab tests are in order.

The majority of lab tests are performed on blood because it is easily and safely sampled and it holds many microscopic clues to what’s going on throughout the body. Other tests may require urine, joint fluid or even small pieces of skin or muscle. Whether you’re just beginning the diagnostic process or completing your umpteenth year of treatment, the following information should help you understand some of the most common lab tests you’re likely to encounter.

Making a Diagnosis

While lab tests aren’t needed for every form of arthritis, they are very important to verify and confirm the presence of some diseases, according to Robert Lahita, MD, chief of rheumatology at St. Luke’s/Roosevelt Hospital and associate professor of medicine at Columbia University. If your symptoms and physical examination suggest rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, Sjogren’s syndrome, Lyme disease or one of a few other inflammatory forms of arthritis, the following tests can often confirm your doctor’s suspicions:

Antinuclear antibody (ANA) Commonly found in the blood of people who have lupus, ANAs (abnormal antibodies directed against the cells’ nuclei) can also suggest the presence of polymyositis, scleroderma, Sjogren’s syndrome, mixed connective tissue disease or rheumatoid arthritis. Tests to detect specific subsets of these antibodies can be used to confirm the diagnosis of a particular disease or form of arthritis.

Rheumatoid factor (RF) Designed to detect and measure the level of an antibody that acts against the blood component gamma globulin, this test is often positive in people with rheumatoid arthritis.

Uric acid By measuring the level of uric acid in the blood, this test helps doctors diagnose gout, a condition that occurs when excess uric acid crystallizes and forms deposits in the joints and other tissues, causing inflammation and severe pain.

HLA tissue typing This test, which detects the presence of certain genetic markers in the blood, can often confirm a diagnosis of ankylosing spondylitis (a disease involving inflammation of the spine and sacroiliac joint) or Reiter’s syndrome (a disease involving inflammation of the urethra, eyes and joints). The genetic marker HLA-B27 is almost always present in people with either of these diseases.

Erythrocyte sedimentation rate Also called ESR or “sed rate,” this test measures how fast red blood cells cling together, fall and settle (like sediment) in the bottom of a glass tube over the course of an hour. The higher the rate, the greater the amount of inflammation.

Lyme serology This test detects an immune response to the infectious agent that causes Lyme disease and thus can be used to confirm a diagnosis of the disease.

Skin biopsy Taking small samples of skin and examining them under a microscope can help doctors diagnose forms of arthritis that involve the skin, such as lupus, vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels) and psoriatic arthritis.

Muscle biopsy By going a little deeper into the tissue than with the skin biopsy, the surgeon can take a sample of muscle to be examined for signs of damage to the muscle fibers. Findings can confirm a diagnosis of polymyositis or vasculitis.

Joint fluid tests – In this procedure, which is similar to drawing blood, the doctor inserts a needle into a joint space and removes fluid. An examination of the fluid may reveal uric acid crystals, confirming a diagnosis of gout or bacteria, suggesting that the joint inflammation is caused by infection.

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The Editors
11 Mar 2010, 16:33
Dear Carol and Fellow Arthritis Today Readers,

While we aim to provide important and timely information to help you and your health-care team best manage your arthritis and related conditions, www.ArthritisToday.org and Arthritis Today magazine cannot diagnosis or provide specific medical advice for specific individuals with arthritis and related conditions.

Each person's case is unique, therefore, the information we provide is meant to help keep you informed of the latest treatments, future treatments and management solutions, all of which should be discussed with your physician and fellow members of your health-care team prior to trying the solutions.

Thanks for reading,
The Editors
ArthritisToday.org and Arthritis Today magazine
Carol
27 Feb 2010, 23:01
Left this message 2-27-10
Could you please inform me if there is any danger to me with these blood results ? Many thanks. Carol

Just recieved a copy of my blood results. I've had RA since 1997. Had recent test which is extremely high, more than ever before. THESE WERE TAKEN 2-24-10

RF 1,912.0 High(normal is up to 20.0)
CRP is 2.5 High(normal is up to 0.9)
SED/ESR 75.0 High(normal is up to 20.0)

Comp Metabolic Panel
Sodium 135.7 Low (norm is up to 144.0)
Chloride 97.4 Low (norm is up to 111.0)
Carbon
Dioxide 32.3 High(norm is up to 32.0)

CBC
RBC 3.83 Low(norm is up to 5.40)
HGB 11.5 Low(norm is up to 14.0 Women)
HCT 34.1 Low(norm is up to 47.0

THE FOLLOWING WERE TAKEN 2-5-10
You'll NOTE anything which was not run between these two periods of tests, were either in NORMAL ranges or weren't ran at all.

CL 100.7 Low (norm is up to 111.0)
Glucose 112 High(norm is up to 105)
GFR(F)
Creatine 0.72 Norm(norm is up to 1.09)
GFR(F) 88.12 Has no numbers to related to however it has numbers out in front of STAGES such as stage 1 thru 5 wherein my number 88.12 falls into the category of Stage 2. I have a fatty diffuse liver due to methotrexate use I was told, also with little holes in my liver with one fatty grizzly looking line across the kidney with one which branches off of it appearing to section the liver into three parts.

CBC also ran:
HGB 11.4 Low (with normal up to 14.9) but I think I read somewhere that womens are rated lower than this.
HCT 35.8 Low (normal rate up to 47.5)
Lymph% 50.2 High (normal rate is up to 45.8
Gran% 37.8 Low (normal rate is up to 77.1)
Diane
18 Feb 2010, 11:11
Hello all! Just found this site--and am glad I have a chance to ask the "experts" a question! I am an "expert" too---my expertise is PAIN!! I have been a Fibro patient since I was diagnosed in the 80's by a very forward-thinking neuro dr. She told me I had Fibro way back then--before it became "popular". I also have a host of other illnesses--myofascial pain syndrome, degenerative discs, arthritis in many places, ulnar nerve problems--and it goes on and on! I live w/chronic pain 24/7--even with the amount of morphine that I take! I go to a pain doctor and an internist for my meds.

OK--my question is this: For many years I have had a blood test reading of GGTB that is in the 250-300 range--which is so abnormal that I had to see a rheumy dr. He said it was a "fluke"---but I never can seem to find out exactly what GGTB is? I know its a liver thing--but I cant even find out about it online--where you can find just about everything! Can one of the experts help and explain what GGTB is? Thanks so much!
Jennifer
29 Jan 2010, 11:32
I am allergic to sulfa drugs and would like to find something I can take for the osteoarthritis in my hands. There are days it hurts to hold the steering wheel and the pain has gotten to the point that I do not shake hands with anyone and cannot grip items. I am also looking for some exercises. I am a secretary and a quilter so my hands are extremely important to my livelihood.
gj moore
08 Jan 2010, 19:38
ra and episcleritis have in commom.ra inflammation joints and episcleritis
inflammation of eye-biologic remicade.
did remicade infusion cause episcleritis
request med clarification
Editors
28 Dec 2009, 12:14
Michelle,
It's possible that the barometric pressure (which is influenced by altitude) in Colorado had an affect on your arthritis. Check out our recent article on the subject:

http://www.arthritistoday.org/symptoms/pain/weather-pain.php


Thanks,
The Editors
Arthritis Today magazine
Michelle
22 Dec 2009, 19:42
I was diagnosed with JRA (juvenile rheumatoid arthritis) when I was 13 and am now 32. I've found that going to the gym regularly and keeping up on my medications work wonders. I have taken Celebrex, Ansaid, and many other meds and have had my fair share of cortizone shots, but have had the best luck with my current prescriptions. I'm taking Enbrel shots and methotrexate and have not had a flare up in a couple of years. Before my doctor started me on Enbrel, I had been going in at least once a month for cortizone shots in both knees. The Enbrel worked almost immediately. Another thing I found that was strange was, about a month before my doc put me on Enbrel, I was having a bad flare-up week. My family went to Colorado for a winter vacation and my symptoms seemed to disappear while we were gone. Within hours of returning home, my knees swelled up again. Coincidence? Maybe. But I've wondered since then if the altitude has anything to do with flare ups.
Lisa Gregory
31 Oct 2009, 17:36
I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis almost 10 years ago my Rheumatologist also said my blood needed to be monitored on occasion to make sure it did not go higher. He then after about a year moved his practice almost 200 miles from me. I had to find a new doctor who never did xrays or told me anything he just disargreed with my previous Dr and said I have Ostio. My previous Dr was giving me Hydrocodone 3 times a day along with other drugs I can't remember the names of. The new doctor said I sholud go off the Hydrocodone for awhile and prescribed me Flexeril and an anti inflammatory. after a couple of years he had been refusing to restart my pain meds I was miserable. He then moved his office I have a new doctor who is kinder gentler and listens more but he gives me Lodine ans Flexeril. I am in constant pain these drugs DON'T help and when I tell them thay act as though I just want drugs to abuse. I am not like that when told to go off the hydrocodone for AWHILE I did it on my own without a problem I just tapered off. I don't know what to do or how long I can go on suffering this way. I have also been diagnoised with Fibromyalgia. I tried Lyrica but did not help.I see a psychitrist who prescribs cymbalta and also Xanax PRN. If not for him I would have given up by now.I hurt so bad all the time.
Eva Ziem
24 Oct 2009, 12:31
To Patty who wrote on 11 Jun 2009, 10:39

I love your comments! Yes!
Do not sit there like a duck but actively participate. It's your health and your body.

Demand tests and ask for hard copies of them.
Keep in mind that these doctors are humans too and could be tired to not feeling good and can miss a very important info. It happened to me.

My doc ordered a test for calcium and the lab package included the kidney functions. The doc looked (on a computer screen) at the calcium result and did not pay attention to the kidney part.

It turned out months later that he looked at it and we found out that I have a kidney problem. If I have had this piece of paper in my hand I would have noticed the 'out of range' flags.

Another example how docs can miss very important info... I have arthritis in my hands and was concerned if this could be RA and made appointment. My doc faxed her my recent labs (the ones showing my kidney problem). She decided that I have no RA but but she gave an RX for MOBIC for my hands which is a NSAID and people with kidney disease absolutely should NOT take it...
Figure that! If I would have not known that
I would be damaging my kidneys even more...

A moral from this story: Check your labs, check your docs!!! They do not care!

Katina
22 Oct 2009, 21:33
Seronegative RA
You can have RA and no elevation in RA factor in your blood. My factor was negative when I was first diagnosed 2 years ago but my other blood counts were off and you can tell by looking at my hands and feet that it is RA. Heredity is also a common factor. RA is rampant in my family from my mom and dad, so if folks in your family have it it is the likely culprit.
Mila
13 Oct 2009, 16:58
I am only 23 years old, but I have had pain throughout my legs and arms for years. My knees are in a lot of pain especially and now it is traveling to my ankels. No one could ever figure out what was wrong. I was tested for RA recently and it was negative. Could RA be missed in a blood test? Or will it always show on a blood test? I wish I knew what was wrong. My parents are starting to think I am making up the pain because the lab test were fine.. :(
kelly
07 Oct 2009, 13:44
To Sharon:

I hope the Plaquenil is helping. I took it for about 9 years before I moved to Ga. Pain doc here does not use and no funds currently to go to a rheumatologist. It was the best med for Fibromyalgia. Had to "cold turkey" off 12/08 and feel horrible. It might take some time to feel the full potential of the Plaquenil but it is a wonder drug. Don't forget to have your eyes examined every 6 months.
Vicki Sorrells
27 Sep 2009, 20:39
Hey Joe Davall, There is place called Progessive Medical that might can help you in Dunwoody, GA. I work at a lab called Metametrix and we do a lot of Holistic testing for them.

Thank care,
Vicki
julie
07 Sep 2009, 09:24
I had a neg test for RA, but positive for arthritis,inflamation,and bursitis. I have found a cheap drink at walmart 4 cans @ $3.00 called joint juice. I drink one a day preferably in the am and after 2 days the joint pain lessens somewhat what a relief. You see I'm also taking pain meds to control my all over pain;legs,back,shoulder and hip. If it's going to stop me from taking more pain meds than prescribed it works for me.
Hope this will help someone in need.
Sharon
14 Jul 2009, 18:46
I went to a Rheumatologist,and the Doctor said I had advanced rheumatoid arthritis.The doctor said my blood test for that went way off the charts,but he didnt tell me what it was.He put me on Plaquenil 200mg.that I just started a week ago.I am so tired,dont want to eat,and dont want to do a thing.Is there anything I can do or take to help me with this?I am not over weight,and not a senior yet.
Joe Davall
09 Jul 2009, 10:41
I was born with AS, yet I just recently discovered my diagnosis. I am 71.I would like to find a comprehensive management clinic in Middle Georgia. Do you all know of such a place?
Thank you,
Joe


































/
John Garback
08 Jul 2009, 16:30
I'm told that my diagnosis of dermatomyositis is in remission - I'm on a 2-year program (have completed my first year.

Is there any hope for survival for me!

Thank you.
S Wolcott
01 Jul 2009, 15:02
To clarify, my last note was to B Harris only - milk thistle pertains to liver problems, not RA.

People with RA should check out the following websites:

http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/arthritis.html
http://www.nutritiondata.com/tools/nutrient-search

The first is by a chemist who has studied RA for 40 years and cured himself of it. The second is a government food database which allows you to search for foods high in potassium, or copper, and low in calories, or fat, for instance. How food is prepared makes a huge difference. Foods canned or boiled in fluid and then the fluid discarded lose 50% of the potassium. Charles says fructose can make a copper deficiency worse, so don't depend heavily on fruits to get potassium.

Charles says RA is caused by low potassium and low potassium shuts down copper enzymes to mobilise copper for the immune system -- a permanent potassium deficiency causes a permanent shut down of copper enzymes leading to aneurisms, among other things. Many Americans are low in copper regardless of potassium levels according to a study cited by Charles, but w/o a potassium-wasting disease, the available copper would be utilized differently.

You need to read Charles's 300 page document to do the right thing. He says, for instance, that your kidneys must work and you must not have Wilson's disease to increase your potassium or copper intake, and that you must correct any B-1 deficiency before correcting a potassium deficiency because a B-1 deficiency causes heart disease which is not possible if potassium is also deficient. He says that Vitamin C is some kind of copper agonist and too much in the presence of a copper deficiency can kill you (I think via nonfunctional cuproenzyme lysl oxidase which leads to sudden aneurism). So maybe a multi vitamin is in order. I happen to know that zinc also binds with copper and makes it unabsorbable if eaten at the same time.

There is a study cited by Lowe "Is there a potential therapeutic value of copper and zinc for osteoporosis?" in which post menopausal women were given 1 g calcium, 15 mg zinc, 5 mg copper, and 2.5 mg manganese, and did not suffer bone loss (they gained bone mass 0.5%). Estrogen helps you absorb copper. I had a hair analysis before menopause and had normal copper status, then during menopause a hair analysis showed low copper. Serum copper is variable and thus not indicative of copper status. Charles_W has a whole chapter on copper. Copper is a poison so be well informed. As always, consult your doctor.
S Wolcott
01 Jul 2009, 12:38
To B Harris, you should carefully read the following website and all the linked chapters regarding Rheumatoid arthritis:

http://charles_w.tripod.com/arthritis.html

This man is a chemist, studied RA for 40 years, and has cured himself of it. He says it is a potassium deficiency, and it causes a copper deficiency, which itself causes low dopamine, high blood pressure, osteoporosis, aneurisms, among other things. When you have low potassium, your body thinks you have a potassium wasting disease, like cholera, and it trys to conserve metals by drawing them into tissues. It is iron particles in the joints that cause the joint problems.

Meanwhile, take milk thistle for your liver 600-1200 mg (I would take 1200 mg for a few weeks or months, then drop to 600 mg). Milk thistle has saved people's livers from amanita mushroom poisoning at the 1200 mg dose. While you are on the milk thistle, do nice things for your liver (you will have to research on the web what your liver likes, but Adele Davis once said your liver needs protein to rebuild, even if your colon does not like it). For a few months only (LOW protein is linked to long life so this is NOT a smart lifestyle choice) I would boost my protein intake to help the liver rebuild. Take vitamin E, a good multi vitamin, and whatever else your research tells you might help.
Mary
26 Jun 2009, 14:20
A high "sed rate" means you have arthritis, right? I think 99 is pretty high! How do they tell what kind of arthritis you have? I do not believe the Doctor ordered a RF. It wasn't with my other results which were all normal except for the sed rate.
B Harris
13 Jun 2009, 22:08
Over the past 10 years I have been tested for lupus, MS and many others diseases and was finally diagnosed with RA in May 2008. I started making some great progress in Oct 2008 with the meds: Methoand Avara. But, in May I was pulled off of all meds because of high liver panels. What are others turning to when meds start causing havoc with other organs??
Patty
11 Jun 2009, 10:39
When you go to the Doctor bring someone with you, so you have two sets of ears. Also, write your questions down before hand and ask the Doctor each question during the visit. Remember, you are employing that Doctor. You have the right to ask as many questions and get as much information as you need. Be an advocate for yourself, which is the only way we can understand these diseases and move forward with knowledge and be impowered to help ourselves!
D SPRAGUE
10 Jun 2009, 13:30
i had a bunch of blood test done because of pain in hands and knees and was told that my count for arthritis was 57 and normal was 1 to 13 does any body know what that means?
Loretta J. Reed
01 Jun 2009, 20:18
I have had rheumatoid arthritis for a very long time and the only free clinic in my area is the one that blew me off for 4+ years when I begged them to tell me what was wrong with my hands, now ankles are in so much pain I can hardly walk and shoulder has been frozen for 2 months and x rays show osteoarthritis, I am very weak and have humongous purple bruises all over my body. I became a penniless widow due to husband being undiagnosed cancer after monthly visits to MD for 6+ years.

I have been denied Medicaid twice since husbands death because doctor scribbled on state forms and did not answer half of forms. I need a rheumatoid expert with knowledge of numerous drug allergies and I need some help paying. I am receiving a small VA benefit and I had to appeal widows disability and I have another year wait, I am not old enough for social security. I am always in excruciating pain.

Any suggestions?
Mary Ledvina
07 May 2009, 01:21
I have had a high rhuematoid factor for years and can not see a rhumatologist insurance dosen't pay. Does anyone know of any thing through arthritis foundation of michigan if they can help to see a rhuematologist?
Carrie
28 Apr 2009, 13:38
I had spinal an neck surgery 2000-2005 I was doing great until I hit my head in Feb 2009.I been having serves pain both neck hand sholder in low back,head aches that I don't get at all.before I had the to sugery,now the pain is back.I been to the Dr. they said RA.But most of all I am a high pain,I don't know what to do.
Angela
25 Apr 2009, 07:05
My mom has just been diagnosed with RA. I dont know much about this disease. She has days she can't even move the pain is unbearable . This has been going on for a year sometimes just not so severe. She has been to different doctors and just this week did one do any lab work. When the results came back her rheumatoid factor was 508.3!!! That she had extreme RA. Is this possible? The nurse told her the normal range was 0.4-4.9. No one I've asked can give me an answer. Just thought someone here might could help me.
Susan
18 Apr 2009, 22:18
I have pain in both of my thumbs 24/7...I have been told
I have Osteoarthritis...could the pain in my thumbs be RA ?I've had injections in both thumbs with no relief...is there anything that will help?
Nikki
18 Apr 2009, 04:43
Shouldn't the Anti-CCP antibody be on here as well? I know it's fairly a new test. It's supposed to be a marker for RA.
lina
17 Apr 2009, 23:57
Hi I have Arthritis and some times my pain is so bad in joint all over my body specially in my knees and I have hard time to walk I went to the Dr and I am done with that section already do you people have any new -old remedies /or ideas you can tell me. AND I like to find out is there any support group South San Jan CA let me know.
Thanks for your time to read my add and trying to help me.
janice dean
16 Apr 2009, 21:12
I hurt from day light till dark but I try hard to put up a frontfor my family.I was just diagnoised with RA My upper back along where the bra line would be hurt.Is this common and all the way up to the back of my neck has really been causing sleepless nights. Please help me with an answer
Fred Esposito
16 Apr 2009, 09:50
I am 79yrs.of age and contracted Lyme disease about 20 yrs. ago (classic bull's eye,etc..) Had intermittent bouts of arthritic pain in knees, then period of relative painlessness. Now I am constantly in knee pain, after an arthroscopic operation on my rt knee four yrs. ago, no difference in pain from each knee exists..both knees pain equally! Meloxicam 7.5 MG produces no relief. Any suggestions?
Kath Strickler
14 Apr 2009, 12:08
In response to Kat Strickland, Apr 10: The number '36' was your Erythrocyte sedimentation rate, most commonly called your 'sed rate'. It is a measurement taken for rheumatoid arthritis.
36 is high as my understanding is that they quit measuring at 40.

You definitely should see a Rheumatologist that specializes in rheumatoid arthritis.
KAT STRICKLAND
10 Apr 2009, 19:56
DOC TESTED ME FOR ARTHUR..CALLED ME TODAY SAID YEP NEEDED TO GO A Rheumatoid SPECIALIST...SAID MY TEST SHOWED A HIGH NUMBER...I ASKED THE NURSE WHAT IT WAS SHE SAID 36 ..I ASKED WHAT THE NORM WAS SHE SAID THE RANGE WAS 0-20...I SAID OK MAKE ME A APPT. BUT NOW I AM WONDERING JUST WHAT THAT MEANS AND NOW LOOKING IN TO THINGS SEEMS I NEED TO GET READY WITH LOTS OF ??...BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE 36 MEANS OR WHICH TEST THEY MAY HAVE TAKEN ??I WILL DEFIN BE IN THE KNOW NEXT GO AROUND ..
Candace Bartholomew
07 Apr 2009, 20:36
I have had RA for 7 months and I take methotrexate. I was wondering if there is a support group of some kind either by email or in my town of Merced Ca. Is there a convention of any kind? Thanks Candace
Anne Frankel
03 Apr 2009, 19:36
I have had two doctors diagnos me with RA and two other doctors diagnos me with Osteo-arthritis. All are rhuematoligests. Who should I believe?? I test negatvie for RA but my MRI's show a inflametory condition with the synovial membrane of my finger joints.
Who should I believe????
very confused
Martha Thomopson
31 Mar 2009, 10:27
Thank you for this explanation of the different labs for different diseases.
Vicki Nicholls
30 Mar 2009, 12:16
I also agree with Ann. We (patients) are left to figure out all this medical stuff. When you're in constant pain, even the most intelligent of us have a hard time. Try to do Algebra next time you have the flu...you'll get what I mean.
Vicki Nicholls
30 Mar 2009, 12:13
I have always meant to do a spreadsheet and figure out what they all mean. I know most of them, now. Thank you Arthritis Foundation for this great website!!!
Janice Sutton
30 Mar 2009, 11:18
I would like more information on polymyalgia rheumatica. How long does it last? I was told 1 year, 2 years ------?
Joan Preston
30 Mar 2009, 10:30
Synvial Fluid analysis.

At the suggestion of a Orthopedic Surgeon I
had an mri performed, The tech stated that
the joint was not torn. The Dr. was ready to
perform arthiscopic surgery. We decided to
look into "Regenexx" treatment if I am a
candidate. While taking the steps to get
ready for the regrowth of the cushion we
found out that the proceedure used on me
was a short cut to surgery. He should have
had a blood test first to check for the
cause of the inflamation, and then a draw
from the knee to check for septic bacteria.

We had to go to our PC for the blood test
and she has referred us to a rhuematolist
for the Synvial test. We could not find a
Orthopedic Dr. who used the proper proceedure before operating.
Sarah McMahan
30 Mar 2009, 10:29
I have been diagnosed with polymyalgia rheumatica. This is the first time I have found an explanation of sed rate. Now, if I can just get mine down!
Ruth
30 Mar 2009, 10:28
I agree with Ann - that would be incredibly helpful! I track all my labs in a spreadsheet, and have learned what a lot of them mean, but it's been hit or miss.
Ann
30 Mar 2009, 10:07
What would be helpful is the range of lab test numbers and an explanation of what that means. I.e. what do low, med or high ANA or RF numbers mean? Do they correspond to mild, med or severe RA or no connection? Do those numbers vary during "flares" or have no connection? & etc. do they indicate future outcomes, i.e. # x usually inicates a poorer outcome than #y & etc.

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